To Mike Hsu and a Bulldog. Wade Boggs is a hall of fame third baseman Adam Clayton boxes drinking rector of the game. He destroyed the Seattle Mariners and as a member in May rest in peace. First thought Wade Boggs is very much alive it's Mike Shields and secondly the number of Beers is actually highly disputed some say fifty something. The six sixteenths percent as many as seventy here's what's to be honest it's an absolutely saying. Here nobody drink that much about what an attitude like that and a Bulldog. It appears we loved ones it wants connection you know in every aspect of pork okay thanks so long that when he consent. Mean even dozen non WG ER. As I got. Recipes. Wade Boggs is a lot and he lives in Tampa Florida Keys in his early fifty Sports Radio 550. That's why we play where we have a baseball against. If push its other chilling roles we play it's always sunny in Philadelphia making fun of Wade Boggs in his chicken habits. For the Vin Scully talking about all the things on the dollar bill would have to do with the number thirteen those or go to news. As we just went over last week Sam Miller was with us now it's been when Byrd the co authors of the only rule is it has to work. So we went Sam then ban. Although bench just between the three of us it's always been and Sam for me. You have well meet you are an act. And actually get in the book cover sort of settled that forget that it is then church and act. You know how. You'll why Siskel and Ebert were Siskel and Ebert and not Ebert and Siskel or book. You don't know I don't know they flipped a coin and we edited in that. You didn't you didn't need to resort to that I guess. No it enjoyed the ambiguity. Is this. Anything like oh you thought media celebrity ride it would go like what amounts of celebrity. Are you enjoying firmness what's what what's what's it been like. I don't think I qualify as a celebrity get beat you have more Twitter followers and I do read. So it's been really great you know where you are writing things for the Internet. And you you read something in the new post the next stage and everyone you that and when you read about as we discovered. That is not to network it's a secret between you didn't. Your editors and maybe a few close friends intently for. Unplanned and it's really hard to just sit up and not at the world yet we are thrilled that it's out there that people can go about it and that the people who have bought it. To be pretty pleased that our. With that said has it been. Weird to not give. As much input right away because it it just takes a while it's a balk as opposed to something reminiscent down and read in fifteen minutes in my office. Yeah I mean we've got a lot to feedback from people who said you know I've read the pro life and I'm hooked her. It's idle time and it should be studying but I can't put the book down and that. Start an endorsement is really great and a lot of people would just certain didn't that book and finished the day or two it is great to hear him. People are kicking their I've been however and whenever people get through it we are thrilled that that there interest that. Along these same lines than we were you. Sort of thinking through your life to last few years say there's there's a book. In me. I just wonder what it'll be all right really want it to be this and then here's this super cool thing. It's written in the book early how this came to happen you and Sam running baseball operations for an independent league team in California. Wonder like why can't help close this real idea came to your fantasy. Of what book you might write someday. Yeah I am always so they've would read Election Day but I honestly didn't think it would be get a public because. Even know I had written a lot about it all over the last few years. I'll look like that was the last thing I wanted to do a book about you know that's. The page we've we read about it well for our web site their primary job and beat a podcast about it and so. Hey you know the last thing that I wanted to do is use the despair I mean which I wasn't doing picked up that you portrait pop. But when that if I picket line it just was so appealing that. You know that's the one baseball book that I think either that skit at that. We've been thinking about it for a few years and we had Q Andre played that great people and seemed like a long shot a lot of the time that we were thinking about it but. It came together and that worked out as well we could've. Imagined I think that's really a thrill. You know bend it it strikes me in preparing to talk to you that there might there might be. Baseball fans who would hear some analysts guys have written a book and just dismiss it eat it just out of hand I I don't wanna even bother. That stuff doesn't make sense to me. And it's a threat a threat or it could just bore me to tears I'm wondering how much of an effort you guys me because in what I've read of the book. It's a great read and I think it's so important. That took to if you wanna try to build any kind of a bridge of your interest in that to people who don't respect perhaps high regard for. Analytics and advanced statistical research to tell a story along the way in sorted. Get them to make friends with the idea of maybe finding some respect for what it is you guys actually do. He had we have heard that reaction from bunch of people people who aren't even baseball fans or people who. Potter but works much into the numbers aspect you seem to be finding something collected manner and I think. Our plan was always does go a little bit behind the numbers that we you know we didn't think it would be about it on a book about stats there's certain extent and of course. That's in there. I think it did end up being about much more than added ended at about you know people and relationships and OSHA didn't management concern how to run a business and how not to run a business and so. I think there are a lot of lessons in there that people can draw in other fields. And I hope that it should the unrated you know there are a lot of funny story can spend the summer around baseball players and you're in the dugout every day. You're gonna get some stories and you know we put a lot of them in the books so I hope there are a lot of laps and there is dwellers election. Ben Lindbergh where thus he writes for 538 dot com the book is the only rule is it has to work. I'm guessing you've been asked this a lot but I think it's in each and question anyway. How about the reaction you got from ball players even if it happens that there were. Reactions from ball players you knew about that weren't on the Sonoma stoppers like. I know you made the point that. Their playing at such a level where they might be used to just like anything can happen the in in that level of baseball but nonetheless I'm a mission and what that was like. Yeah it varied a little bit based on white player it was there if it was a player we signed. Using our step and our spreadsheets then. Obviously I think they were inclined to be a little bit more receptive to our president and our views on baseball then. Players who repaired before we where beacons you know you that they can totally understand. All the stats that that has gone into who are signing that they were happy to have the job and they were in favor of anything that's that that they were good baseball. And you know we were sort of the only wanted to say that that's and these guys to where virtually retired actor not. Having been signed by any pro team after college and so that helped and I think. Just being at that level you know we were able Q offer information. And some resources to these guys that they are not used to that no independent league has so. Whether it was video and being able to show them video there that and video deepening starter and being able to tell them how. That picture fruit and what he throws and when he throws it where he threw that all that useful information. Not everyone wants all of that in their heads when they walk up to the plate and they are trying to hit a baseball that are really hard. You know at some of them think it can and I clutter clutter of the brain and at a time when they want to be very and then just keep all of the ball. I think a lot of guys that we're pretty impressed with that you know Lebanese information that we were able to offer was standard at the Major League level but. And these guys had ever experienced that and so. I think they were intrigued and I think seven. Players cute redhead you know whether they were on the team or not some. Minor leaguers and affiliated Covert meeting with being sent last night about how they're reading the book on their stride that games and they really enjoying it there's so. I think there definitely has something in an effort people who have been players in the pad that all player like. I think there is a lot of that in their. Ben is there an example from the book although player or maybe one that didn't make the book who. Was perhaps a tougher no more skeptical. Of what you when Sam we're trying to do. And ended up having a moment where we're at where there was you know clarity what all this makes sense I get it now. Yeah I think in a lot of cases we stop someone would be. Opposed to what we were doing but that was just really had a mischaracterization of our part you know we we walked into the clubhouse and. Seven tired you know just sort of dirty dude and we haven't stepped upon a time as part of the team in a clubhouse before and. You know which you're certain standard. Ducks beat the big peaks and that kind of marriage and so it was an idiot first then. A lot of that was not not reluctant about these CDs that big hair he let athletes and we think these guys are never gonna go for. What we had darker. In what it is we misjudged them and all the. Think that we were worried about and whether it was. That are present in the clubhouse and dugout or later in the future and when John Andre when the players we signed out and became the first. That we openly gay. And in protection bank. You know as a as a player and we were worried what you know for years people had said. What will happen if a player tries to do that without the distraction will review revoked. And there arose almost nothing you know it went up nuclear weapon that it hit I think we really found that about everybody was interest at. Everyone was tolerant. You know whatever viewpoint order background that we. Doctor I don't know whether that he was. Particularly. You know receptive and Matt in that respect or not or whether that's just the wake up at work than they've gotten a bad rap over the years but. We really where we're thrilled with. Players. Two at the time. Sean Conroy by the way is the player from RPI that bet that Sam mentioned last week that he wondered. We estimate he knew were buffalo was and he said no. Have to Andes is it near Utica is really got from RPI which I think is in Troy and anyway. Ben Lindbergh were thus the only rule is it has to work I I love the writing of course the idea the writing. I think it's really cool you guys structure of this book alternating chapters they hope that's not giving anything away. And I want it's even though I think this was Sam's writing I wanna know your opinion of this part. That the peace he wrote on winning for losing. And even putting formula down on why is winning. We've had with the bills and sabres in the years we we've felt that we've heard from players and coaches have talked about the winning doesn't. Measure up to with that the thrills of winning don't measure up to the the depths of losing losing is always like Maurer. Powerful more intense. I thought that was really really great work and. Yeah I think that there really night's passage in and I agree with them on Matt and you know we would have laughed for everything to be perfectly in the go to go undefeated during the season but. I think we were able to experience certain that the full spectrum of emotions you know even some moments that you'll read about in the book. They're spent five or six seconds where we experienced the Hyatt Ty is in the load load that you can experience a bit off field. And so. I think we we kind of got that the complete picture even know it was one some member of our allies and there was a certain point at which we just sort of realize you know whether we. We lose we just. Want to have you know accomplish what we set to accomplish we don't want to have regrets. Things we didn't Trier but we didn't say and so later in the book a lot of it is just assert. You're trying to combat grind that that and when players have been playing day after day after day and the games start blending into each other and we start thinking well we haven't booked array did you know we start focusing on Madden and we had that kind of grab or something they know they're all these things that we wanted to try. And what are we ever gonna get a chance to do something like that again and so we make the most at that time and so we were able to do some fun things. In the last few weeks of the season that I'm really glad we pulled. Yeah the way he. The season goes allows you to do what you just said which you described a little bit I wonder if like your your. In this experience. And your focus is and doing the job you've been asked to do. But the ball is in your mind I mean the book is part of the overall. So as you like. If I go to baseball reference or retro xi. And I just start down a path a click on a player in the night click on his game law argument I find game one time to do this for Pete Rose. And ended up at a game where Steve Carlton the triple and I had an O like. Pod that happened what was he. If somebody fall down I just you go to a page minutes of box score and that it's a story. So this season you had I think was probably pretty good for purposes of telling the story you know. It was great I think he I think seven and it's that that oak. If we could have you know simulated this whole experiment. Out of time there's a thing. Yeah that probably would've been in that. In the top veto and or something he's been that we ever could've hoped for from a storytelling perspective. You know we we got to experience. A lot of winning a lot of losing a lot of exciting successful players a lot of players who didn't succeed. The old and I'm right dimension to the story were true or not something we had anticipated at all so you know I think there are a lot of ways in which. We could have done got out there redundant and it. But it is an okay story that I think we really ended up with or than we bargained for and you know it was something that we were conscious throughout the key isn't. Not always Q was you know what was in our interest as storytellers and the craters in the interest of the image itself. Elena is something we had 22 way you know whether we were in the kitchen because we why did you for the book or because we really thought. He would win or and it would be good for the team and we tried to do the latter in all cases and just hope that that the rest would work out that. You know there are a lot of movement that work frustrating for a in the moment. Where things we wanted to do didn't work out there we weren't able to implement them because there was conflict and our managers or coaches. At the week we're blowing netstat is terrible we're you know want to comment and just. It caters to tell everyone what to do it now we're getting on the back that. In the end I think that really worked out in the stories here you know it really did that have. Conflict and drama that it wouldn't have otherwise and it also. A lot about how to interact with people. I met big moments of crisis I was wondering just where we're sitting here speaking with you. Whether there was any point in time where you guys thought. This was a horrible. What are what are we what are we that we get out of the suspect what are we doing here. Yeah I don't know whether we ever thought the idea it was horrible we thought it was a good idea that we thought our secure enough that what is so bad that we were blowing it. There really was that moment there is a moment where we. Considered going to our editors and saying hey can we need. Take a Mulligan on that two weeks and we during the Q and over in 2070 and it will just. Or read a book for you then or something you know because we eat we thought that if we had had more time to plan. That everything would have gone more smoothly in and probably would have but I think this was a more accurate representation of you know what we set out the fine which routes will our ideas and work in practice will these players in these managers. Receptive to the things that we read about on the Internet or will we find out that can practice. You know there are considerations that. We haven't taken into account that you have to adjust their plan they not bad and so I think that's really important part of the story and and it's frustrating at that wet at the time I think in retrospect I wouldn't have been the other way. So for a little bit of a bold put on this conversation I love effectively wild your podcast. And I especially love the hypotheticals and are you hear that. How if you feel except the term how far away do you think we are ban. From a Major League manager. That comes from your world. Well I think. Probably pretty far away because. You know that really does seem to be the. The one barrier that is very tough to creature you're going to be a manager. Major League PM it's really I'm not a prerequisite that you have them at level playing experience now. That cute things aren't mutually there are a lot of players a who. Eight acres are certainly the miners and are very interested in politics inspections. Of prominent players even and so. I think that's certainly something we could be at the rate player come on who. Can combine but the the background than. At the arts that has side but also the Smart players I had you know and having that experience to be able to command the respect to the club outs. That's certainly something that could. But you know in the next decade I would think getting. And failing that I think it it definitely wouldn't be. A surprise to see a team go with them mortar analytically inclined bench culture. You know even for baseball it's sort of adopted new coach didn't and that's the one doing something akin to and I were doing in the dugout with the stoppers richest. You know it's. Adding some input did. Bringing our statistical knowledge to bear and had a couple went through that based on knowledge of the people who didn't play Medicaid for years. Were even seen that in football now finally where you have been coaches who have. Those guys scheme management coaches may be at their disposal so football is football is slow to this. Movement but it it's gonna get there probably. Didn't. Spend any questions for us hear from you you're in the New York area so hopefully you know where we are. That's idea of city so not that close but it seems that at least. Since say all right well. It's been a real pleasure thank you so much for fitting us and and continued success. The last time Janet Frazier I'm happy to talk to any broadcaster and bulldogs. That makes them all many years away our prompt are we brought him radio guys getting to run a team that's what I wanted to next to. Thank you buy and then when bird the only rule is it has to work really loved it. The website is the only rule is it has to work dot com.