Eric it's Howard Jeremy good morning I don't first of -- I'm good guys don't get out of that meeting. It couldn't prisoners being Gary Bettman and go hi I'm Chris Ohio. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Say hey guys sorry -- -- I was busy eluding. Including ours that is taking some money out of your pension. The other thing I do you talk about you know 678 years deviate in the NHL PA and out here all along am proposing a really short TBA. As short as three years that one point which was I think designed to try to extract. Some leverage but really you know the NHL PA has really. Been proposing a five years he BA leader of the NFL and we knows MBAs at several you know -- -- -- an option -- Five years he BA it's simply not going to cut it long term CBH promote stability for -- it is necessary for the NHL especially now got a long term CBS. If necessary so we don't have as fans to go through this again in five years or I've had my fill of -- -- Well okay for a layman for me not pre law. What is. NHL PA possibly want to pursue that happen. -- certification that international refers to. The union dissolving itself or blowing itself up so they can then that the players free. And see the NATO for the antitrust poors I call them competition law violations. Things like his salary cap restrictions on free agency. Rookie pay the draft all these things are actually antitrust or competition law violations they're actually unlawful. But here's the thing there inside the four corners of -- CPA and that he be act as a protective bubble for the NHL owners that he BA. It's agreed on both sides -- the players can't see you want it. That's where -- certification comes in these certification is that pinned. That blows up. That protective bubble the players blow up the union players are set free and now the CB a protective bubble no longer applies. In order protect the NHL the players go head into the NHL -- -- that because violations of the very first one they would support. The very first one is locked out. A lockout because those are all thirty -- slash competitors getting together. And collectively -- the players out. Another antitrust violation because the bottom line guys antitrust law is its competitors can't get together stick to marketplace. At all thirty owners happen to be competitors a lot. Now I read there's also an avenue. And Jerry brought it up on the show last week something called a disclaimer of interest what is that and how is that different from decertified. Yes I'm glad that you have addressed at vanguard article on TS and dot -- -- priorities certification and I mention -- a disclaimer of interest. In this spectacular going to be disclaimer of interest -- certification is when the players walk away from the union they vote to walk away dissolve the union. A disclaimer of interest is that -- that it's when the union says -- walking way from the players. They're actually different -- net result blow -- union. And super antitrust violations but different is this thing of interest is just -- you're sending a letter to Gary Devin thank you elect. We're out there -- the players all alone you certification as a more formal robust kinda processed with the players vote. If you like 45 days to do it take a twelve to January for example but the river interest happens instantaneously. Could they -- interest is instantaneous you can do the very next day discredit certification -- 45 days it it's a longer process. -- -- Judges like to be decertification of the players vote on record a -- all about the world peace all right -- the employees so they wanted to keep players vote. But in this case guys at a time crunch I mean we're we're ready in the first we get December and the people who had no hockey by America's Thanksgiving I would tell you both. I just -- -- your bulk nuts but this is where we are right now. So I would expect we'll see that they were of interest but the bottom like listeners of this. The glimmer of interest decertification. The slightly different. But -- -- -- who cares they have the same net result you blow up the union and the trying to have a lockout lifted as an antitrust violation. But let me ask you this though of the time crunch have a because the time is a big thing. The players if they end up doing this and suing in trying to you know do all this doesn't that take to the courts for years. Technically yeah I mean excuse he's coming through it trial. It's 34 years of the lawyer I'm very happy because that's fantastic -- billable. Well let me ask this if you're an owner you know the the players this is where the players think they have a little bit of powers with the certification so -- minorities that are filed. We'll take -- the courts for three years and the players like I'll wait nevermind we definitely don't want to do that. Yet it Heatley and here's where the players get leverage and that the police -- the second part the first question asked before about what is it. The players will be -- of the union. To launch this lawsuit have a lockout lifted -- being done by design to extract leveraged -- CB negotiation but even the short term because. -- have a trial right back and take what -- five years. But inside that's probably a little mini trials you hear about the multi getting an injunction -- committee trial went up to back two weeks in Q when you see new. And that injunction would be to get the lockout lifted so if the NHL players. Could deal with the NFL PA did and that -- in the Brady case get the lockout lifted within two weeks. That and the players have leverage. On the flip side if they fail. In the lockout is in place for an indefinite period of time and it's -- player like oh man I just lost all my leverage. But they even really the the and it the NFL case how different was that. Because NFL case the owners did not at any point wanna miss regular season games and it's showcase security have owners who have some other very willing. To miss regular season games so in this in this grab for leverage with disclaimer of interest for decertification. If if they they what's the precedent for get in the lockout lifted to build -- courts have to believe. That what you're doing here is that is and I guess in good faith in trying to. Do it as opposed to just being used as a negotiation tactic because of the court see this as nothing more. The negotiation tactic what are they less likely to hold it up what the players are looking for. The end you -- a great point and -- goes to what was the NFL's argument and the NBA's argument helpfully the end of the NHL's are even after sham argument. Is that you'd be Serb fire blown up your union. Simply to extract leverage that's not good faith bargaining federal law on the US you have to actually bargain in good statement that this does something you must do -- -- And so the judges could they looked at the justice can now. Billy just Africa's recertify right yeah that is the right -- yeah like you would decertified and then you would what you get what you wind that you would recertified. So you know it's they they called it in the NFL lots -- akin to turning a light switch on and off. You know in the NFL oxidized NHL actually file their own brief is called an abacus -- this is something that a third party files that part of the lawsuit. But they have an interest in what's going on and when you read it it's like get these are all the arguments that the NHL is gonna make but that's the thing though is that -- like in his arguments. It's still a tool available. And -- the NHL players can get the lockout lifted in the short term it might help guys we have BA did -- member of the -- BP A. Disclaim interest in the second week of November we had settlement two weeks later. I don't know whether. It's fair to say that disclaimer of interest in that case also accelerated things. But it may have I mean no -- want to be involved an antitrust litigation guys. Well that's that I earned my question was telling him that went to certification this could take awhile and I believe. Mean seldom talked about like that Armageddon if they go to the certification. What's the quickest way to get this thing settled. Other than the two sides actually agreeing with a disclaimer. Create leverage create pressure for the owners to wanna get a deal done. The president is glad you're using this query -- people get to mixed up all the time and I'm kind of glad that you brought up -- people tell me that. People do you sort of union decertified by way of disclaimer of interest which doesn't. Really credible blogger at the quickest way to do it for the players. Is to dissolve the union that way disclaimer of interest that do that today and then tomorrow filed a lawsuit but guys if on the NHL. I do -- gated. You file -- lawsuit first. You try and pick a court that is more likely to side with the owners and there are certain courts New York Minnesota for example. The players like go to California the the courts in California are more progressive more pro player. And you don't DHL filed a lawsuit first. Usually do that and he -- first you can only gain an advantage so long to do it in the place that makes sense to both sides in New York a good place right now both sides have ties to New York. So while the NHL PA may well disclaim interest. The NHL led by bill Daley was an antitrust litigator by trade they've been particularly filed a lawsuit. And do with the NBA debt and try had a lockout declared valid ahead of time so definitely has chemical. So like I guess you know to wrap up question is this because I think this is an important part like the precedent is point two. With the NBA and NFL and the differences in the parties in all the maybe the issues are the same more than the others a similar situation. In the labor -- owners but. As many times it's pointed to the NFL the NBA you are dealing with the NHL owners who it appears. Our. Or hard line. More willing to lose in order to win you know shutting down their sport now for a second season whenever seven years sell. If the disclaimer of interest -- -- if anyone of these options is used. Will it work. For the players will work in European. Display any interest will will give the players leverage. It may work in the short term. And helped get something done but anybody who tells you that antitrust litigation in the -- -- -- into the -- -- and and in a certain way that is making it out because no one else. These these things are fairly complex. -- and any number of ways but guys here's the bottom line. SP NHL players feel like there's no more room to compromise. That nothing can be gained by talking and they are completely. Out of a reasonable options. Then they have no choice but to turn to the nuclear and dramatic option that is decertification. And if they do that. Then becomes a long term one. It could be or it could be a threat. A decertification. Threat of lawsuits. Could encourage NHL. And that all more favorable terms sure okay but I guess what I'm what I'm getting to his its its a matter of course. It's a matter of once you get to that point you have both sides looking at the other saying how long are you willing to let this go. Who's doubling first right you know that I actually Judea and there's no doubt that if the union blows itself up. It makes getting or having hockey in the short term more unlikely there's no doubt about that guy. Eric Mack mellow and us from Ottawa in the blocked the site to read more is offside sports law. Dot com. Eric thanks actually I I give you a lot of credit because I'm not the brightest guy in the world when it comes to sports law issues you can make your head explode he didn't make my head -- kept nice and simple. These guys that made it all up. I saw me on and on Twitter as well air transport -- -- to -- All right Erica thank you very much for your time. I'd take Eric acknowledgment Aleck kid I've I mean those segments can really make me go bananas sometimes and I just feel like the dumbest guy in the world.